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	<title>Comments on: Sacred Space: Why I&#8217;m Bi-Vocational</title>
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	<link>http://presbymergent.org/2009/08/13/sacred-space-why-im-bi-vocational/</link>
	<description>Loyal Radicals</description>
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		<title>By: Paul Blakesley</title>
		<link>http://presbymergent.org/2009/08/13/sacred-space-why-im-bi-vocational/comment-page-1/#comment-2743</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Blakesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is a really interesting and encouraging thought. Having received my MDIV from Fuller (and the debt to boot!) last year, now working full time as a youth director, and supporting my wife working on her PsyD, I feel like part time ministry and part time work else where just could not pay the bills. But I dream often of part time youth ministry and another vocation - a cook, bar tender, or a teacher are at the top of my list! But I am just unable to move past the financial impossibilities! I wish the church would be more supporting of ordained pastors as well as non-ordained church leadership to be able to do something like this. It might narrow the gap between church leadership and laity, as well as the churched and the unchurched.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really interesting and encouraging thought. Having received my MDIV from Fuller (and the debt to boot!) last year, now working full time as a youth director, and supporting my wife working on her PsyD, I feel like part time ministry and part time work else where just could not pay the bills. But I dream often of part time youth ministry and another vocation &#8211; a cook, bar tender, or a teacher are at the top of my list! But I am just unable to move past the financial impossibilities! I wish the church would be more supporting of ordained pastors as well as non-ordained church leadership to be able to do something like this. It might narrow the gap between church leadership and laity, as well as the churched and the unchurched.</p>
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		<title>By: Talitha</title>
		<link>http://presbymergent.org/2009/08/13/sacred-space-why-im-bi-vocational/comment-page-1/#comment-2680</link>
		<dc:creator>Talitha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://presbymergent.org/?p=504#comment-2680</guid>
		<description>Yay! I wrote similarly a few months ago at http://presbybug.blogspot.com/2009/05/i-am-going-to-be-tentmaker.html ... i am not yet &quot;there&quot; (still in seminary) but am honing those tentmaking skills. I&#039;m thinking about really literally making tents (i have a non-pastor friend who does make them) but also about continuing work in the natural food world - small-scale organic farming or the like. But if i do the tents... one of my more clever friends asked if I would then consider myself bivoac-ational =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay! I wrote similarly a few months ago at <a href="http://presbybug.blogspot.com/2009/05/i-am-going-to-be-tentmaker.html" rel="nofollow">http://presbybug.blogspot.com/2009/05/i-am-going-to-be-tentmaker.html</a> &#8230; i am not yet &#8220;there&#8221; (still in seminary) but am honing those tentmaking skills. I&#8217;m thinking about really literally making tents (i have a non-pastor friend who does make them) but also about continuing work in the natural food world &#8211; small-scale organic farming or the like. But if i do the tents&#8230; one of my more clever friends asked if I would then consider myself bivoac-ational =)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Brantley-Gearhart</title>
		<link>http://presbymergent.org/2009/08/13/sacred-space-why-im-bi-vocational/comment-page-1/#comment-2674</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Brantley-Gearhart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://presbymergent.org/?p=504#comment-2674</guid>
		<description>I once served almost six years as a tentmaker out of economic necessity.  My tent was the circulation department in a local library.  I would never go back to that experience because it nearly ruined my health.  It turns out I was in the wrong tent for me, and the congregation&#039;s power brokers expected nearly full time pastoring from a part time pastor.

I believe God called me to that pastorate, though not to stay.  The congregation and I learned a lot during our time together.  We each grew in awareness.  I believe God wants us to apply our gained awareness, though now in separate ministries.

Edward raises the important point that not all tents provide opportunity for traditional ministry practices.  Let&#039;s look at it from another angle and suggest that not all tentmakers are called to employ all traditional ministry practices.  Perhaps that&#039;s why they&#039;re tentmakers, because their skill set doesn&#039;t -- and shouldn&#039;t have to -- include all pastoral leadership skills traditionally associated with full time pastors.  Rather, the church needs the skills they have, gives thanks for the skills they have, and doesn&#039;t grumble about the skills they don&#039;t have.

I add to that my concern that presbyteries work with congregations to help them come to a more realistic understanding of tentmaking and shared ministry.  Part time ministry shouldn&#039;t mean a minister covers all ministry areas in half the time as a full time pastor.  It should mean that the minister and the congregation are matched with complementary skills.  For instance, perhaps the minister focuses on nurturing congregants&#039; spiritual growth, while the congregation attends to local outreach ministries.

I would consider another experience of tentmaking if it was truly bivocational, that is, if I could fulfill my calling equally in both tent and parish.  I&#039;m not going to hold my breath waiting for such an opportunity to arise for the simple reason that the PCUSA doesn&#039;t appear sufficiently interested or adequately equipped to help match ministers and congregations for this form of ministry.  I could be wrong, but that&#039;s how it looks to me right now.  I&#039;d like to be proved wrong.  Like Edward, I&#039;d like to see some more substantive, out-of-the-box conversation about these and other issues related to tentmaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once served almost six years as a tentmaker out of economic necessity.  My tent was the circulation department in a local library.  I would never go back to that experience because it nearly ruined my health.  It turns out I was in the wrong tent for me, and the congregation&#8217;s power brokers expected nearly full time pastoring from a part time pastor.</p>
<p>I believe God called me to that pastorate, though not to stay.  The congregation and I learned a lot during our time together.  We each grew in awareness.  I believe God wants us to apply our gained awareness, though now in separate ministries.</p>
<p>Edward raises the important point that not all tents provide opportunity for traditional ministry practices.  Let&#8217;s look at it from another angle and suggest that not all tentmakers are called to employ all traditional ministry practices.  Perhaps that&#8217;s why they&#8217;re tentmakers, because their skill set doesn&#8217;t &#8212; and shouldn&#8217;t have to &#8212; include all pastoral leadership skills traditionally associated with full time pastors.  Rather, the church needs the skills they have, gives thanks for the skills they have, and doesn&#8217;t grumble about the skills they don&#8217;t have.</p>
<p>I add to that my concern that presbyteries work with congregations to help them come to a more realistic understanding of tentmaking and shared ministry.  Part time ministry shouldn&#8217;t mean a minister covers all ministry areas in half the time as a full time pastor.  It should mean that the minister and the congregation are matched with complementary skills.  For instance, perhaps the minister focuses on nurturing congregants&#8217; spiritual growth, while the congregation attends to local outreach ministries.</p>
<p>I would consider another experience of tentmaking if it was truly bivocational, that is, if I could fulfill my calling equally in both tent and parish.  I&#8217;m not going to hold my breath waiting for such an opportunity to arise for the simple reason that the PCUSA doesn&#8217;t appear sufficiently interested or adequately equipped to help match ministers and congregations for this form of ministry.  I could be wrong, but that&#8217;s how it looks to me right now.  I&#8217;d like to be proved wrong.  Like Edward, I&#8217;d like to see some more substantive, out-of-the-box conversation about these and other issues related to tentmaking.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Hilton</title>
		<link>http://presbymergent.org/2009/08/13/sacred-space-why-im-bi-vocational/comment-page-1/#comment-2671</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Hilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://presbymergent.org/?p=504#comment-2671</guid>
		<description>Chris, thank you!  You beautifully state the essential reasons why I chose to do ministry in this way.  I&#039;ve been serving as a bi-voc minister for four years now, since graduating PTS and love every minute.  My &quot;tent&quot; is teaching in the local public school district full time and then I serve a church part time (the only pastor, ecumenical ELCA/PCUSA, meet in rented space).  Like you, I see no separation between my vocations, it is living a life of mission - wherever vocation may lead.

It is so great to know of other bi-voc&#039;s out there with the missional mindset.  I can&#039;t say it has been easy, but the sacred space...it is so worth it.  There just seems to be so few of us.

As a full time teacher most of my thoughtful time is spent in the educational realm so I do not have a lot of time to reflect on ministry practices. Have you or other Presbymergents thought about a continuing discussion regarding purposeful bivocational/tentmaking ministry and the theology and issues involved?  I&#039;d love to continue the conversation with others from the missional perspective!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, thank you!  You beautifully state the essential reasons why I chose to do ministry in this way.  I&#8217;ve been serving as a bi-voc minister for four years now, since graduating PTS and love every minute.  My &#8220;tent&#8221; is teaching in the local public school district full time and then I serve a church part time (the only pastor, ecumenical ELCA/PCUSA, meet in rented space).  Like you, I see no separation between my vocations, it is living a life of mission &#8211; wherever vocation may lead.</p>
<p>It is so great to know of other bi-voc&#8217;s out there with the missional mindset.  I can&#8217;t say it has been easy, but the sacred space&#8230;it is so worth it.  There just seems to be so few of us.</p>
<p>As a full time teacher most of my thoughtful time is spent in the educational realm so I do not have a lot of time to reflect on ministry practices. Have you or other Presbymergents thought about a continuing discussion regarding purposeful bivocational/tentmaking ministry and the theology and issues involved?  I&#8217;d love to continue the conversation with others from the missional perspective!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Thayer</title>
		<link>http://presbymergent.org/2009/08/13/sacred-space-why-im-bi-vocational/comment-page-1/#comment-2670</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Thayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://presbymergent.org/?p=504#comment-2670</guid>
		<description>Great post, Chris.  I think the bivocational model has many advantages over traditional pastoral leadership.

It is a serious mistake to have pastors, whom one would hope to be among the most mature, knowledgeable, and passionate Christians, isolated from the outside world.  

Also, employing a full-time minister is a huge burden for many churches.  I have served for a year in a congregation with an average worship attendance of about 50.  I think this a great size for a church, but in denominations with professional clergy, churches this size struggle to find and pay a pastor.

The need to pay clergy also contributes to churches&#039; excessive focus on money--a huge stumbling block for many people.

I especially like the point about leading by example.  Professional clergy do reinforce the idea of a separation between normal life and serving God.  

Unfortunately, in the PC(USA) at least, there are many barriers to bivocational and tent-making ministry: churches without a full-time minister are presumed to be unsuccessful; the process of calling a pastor discourages development of leadership from within; the massive investment of time and money that seminary requires makes it less than ideal for those who don&#039;t want to make a career out of the ministry.  What can be done about these things?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Chris.  I think the bivocational model has many advantages over traditional pastoral leadership.</p>
<p>It is a serious mistake to have pastors, whom one would hope to be among the most mature, knowledgeable, and passionate Christians, isolated from the outside world.  </p>
<p>Also, employing a full-time minister is a huge burden for many churches.  I have served for a year in a congregation with an average worship attendance of about 50.  I think this a great size for a church, but in denominations with professional clergy, churches this size struggle to find and pay a pastor.</p>
<p>The need to pay clergy also contributes to churches&#8217; excessive focus on money&#8211;a huge stumbling block for many people.</p>
<p>I especially like the point about leading by example.  Professional clergy do reinforce the idea of a separation between normal life and serving God.  </p>
<p>Unfortunately, in the PC(USA) at least, there are many barriers to bivocational and tent-making ministry: churches without a full-time minister are presumed to be unsuccessful; the process of calling a pastor discourages development of leadership from within; the massive investment of time and money that seminary requires makes it less than ideal for those who don&#8217;t want to make a career out of the ministry.  What can be done about these things?</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Reyes-Chow</title>
		<link>http://presbymergent.org/2009/08/13/sacred-space-why-im-bi-vocational/comment-page-1/#comment-2669</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Reyes-Chow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://presbymergent.org/?p=504#comment-2669</guid>
		<description>Great post.  I think you are right in that the Tentamking/BiVoc model needs to be seen, not simply as a fiscal response, but one that my indeed be good for a particular community regardless of fiscal realities. Peace! - Bruce</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  I think you are right in that the Tentamking/BiVoc model needs to be seen, not simply as a fiscal response, but one that my indeed be good for a particular community regardless of fiscal realities. Peace! &#8211; Bruce</p>
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		<title>By: Sacred Space: Why I’m Bi-Vocational &#124; Bartender Empoyment</title>
		<link>http://presbymergent.org/2009/08/13/sacred-space-why-im-bi-vocational/comment-page-1/#comment-2668</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacred Space: Why I’m Bi-Vocational &#124; Bartender Empoyment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://presbymergent.org/?p=504#comment-2668</guid>
		<description>[...] the rest here:  Sacred Space: Why I’m Bi-Vocational   Share and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the rest here:  Sacred Space: Why I’m Bi-Vocational   Share and [...]</p>
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