What's wrong with this picture? Is there a better way?
First, the background. My congregation is more “traditional presbyterian” in appearance, but I think emerging church terms. Thankfully, a new church is emerging from the existing body.
In the meantime, some of the former habits are still around. One of them is the “children’s sermon” and children’s worship (separate from the whole community). More and more I have come to think that these practices are not healthy/effective/faithful (because we divide the community, because we make the kids a “show,” because the practices engage neither the children nor the adults that serve them.)
But I also know that we have to intentionally engage and demonstrate our value for people of all ages, but children especially. Frankly, sometimes the Bible talks about “adult” things, and at those times, I am glad that the kids are getting a separate program. I also wonder, because the first question that parents ask when they consider a church is “what is your children’s program?” if answering, “the whole worship celebration is kid-friendly, and we consider them and involve them every time we plan worship,” would be sufficient. I also wonder if we could really do that and continue to serve/value the the older, “traditional” crowd.
How do you all do kids in worship? How should we?
About Drew Ludwig
Hi Drew!
Thanks for the great question…it certainly is one I have been spending a lot of time with especially now that I am engaged in planting an intentionally missional church while also being a father to my four children. There are two major problems with the way we do ministry to our children in the American Protestant church today…
1. Too many parents (me included!) have outsourced the faith conversation to the church rather than engage in it themselves. I cannot tell you the number of parents who I counseled as a traditional pastor the last six years who had no idea how to even bring up the faith conversation with their kids. They considered that something the “church” should do for them. Of course, we reinforce this idea by compartmentalizing ministries by age groups, special programs, children’s sermons, etc.
2. This exposes the deeper issue which is that worship has ceased to be a spiritually formative experience for the entire family and is now perceived a purely cognitive/passive/spectator experience for the individual. Thus, the protestations by some of our more traditional/older members that children in church would be disruptive.
Answer? I am not sure I have one but firmly believe that the Reformed Tradition with its emphasis on covenantal theology has serious resources for re-thinking how we live in community together. For example, in the Jewish Passover liturgy, the youngest member of the family plays a pivotal role in asking the important questions that then guide the liturgical experience. What if we began including the youngest members of our community in the Lord’s Supper liturgy? It seems to me that one of the reasons children are “disruptive” is because of what we are asking them to do in worship…i.e. be a quiet, passive, spectator for an hour. What if worship was more participatory? Involved movement? Invited them to contribute in meaningful ways to the experience? As I said, I don’t have any answers but these are just some of the questions I am wrestling over right now…
I posted on children’s sermons a few months ago: http://adamjcopeland.com/2008/04/07/great-childrens-sermon-resource/
One of the comments was great. Beth said, “One of the most interesting children’s sermons I ever observed occurred while visiting a very progressive UMC in Chicago. The communion table (very large) had been moved to the center of the worship space. When the time came for the Children’s sermon, the leader came to the table, pulled out a rug (all of the visitors had leaned forward thinking – at least this is something we can understand) and the children gathered on the rug in a huddle. The adults couldn’t hear a thing – it was all for the kids and not for the adults at all, announcements went around the congregation on a clipboard while this was going on. At the end, the children got up and went back to their seats. Never did know what they talked about – but they knew that they had special time too”
Doug,
What an excellent idea, including children in the Lord’s Supper liturgy in the same way they are included in the Pesach. In the Pesach, the youngest child asks the four traditional questions, beginning with “Why is this night different from all other nights?” What might be questions a child could ask at the beginning of the Eucharist liturgy?
This is a great conversation – many thanks to all of you for your ideas and reflections. On occasion, we celebrate baptism with the children coming forward so they can have a close look at what is going on. The last time we celebrated it, I asked if anyone wanted to pour the water. To my delight, one of the hcildren did – and you could tell from the look on his face that he took his ‘job’ responsibly & joyfully. Of course, this is just a start. We need to open up worship for all children to participate in. One good book on this is “Postmodern Children’s Ministry: Ministry to Children in the 21st Century” by Ivy Beckwith. Some good reflections there.
What bothers me (as a pastor) is that from many adults I hear “I get more out of the children’s sermon than the kids do.” That tells you something right there! I don’t do a children’s sermon (even though many members protest a great deal). Instead I have made a very intentional effort to include people of all ages in the worship expereince. Kids (as young as 5th- 6th grade) serve as liturgists, all ages serve as ushers, they are taught to hold the offering plate and the hymnal. They are taught the words to share during communion, and what it means. I encourage the children to follow the bulletin and the words in the Bible when we read scripture. I will come out the pulpit and help a child find the page if needed.
Recognizing that children have many different ways they worship, we have a “creativity table” in the back of the sanctuary where during worship kids can go back there and engage in activities related to the Bible text for that morning. There are coloring sheets, crayons, markers, puzzles… all sorts of things for them.
I thought the older people would have trouble with this but they love it. Hearing children in worship has become part of the “joyful noise” when we worship God.
We are experimenting with a new way of talking about the “children’s time.” We too regret the comments from adults who quit paying attnetion right after that. We are thinking of it more as our kinesthetic learners’ time. The children still come up, but instead of grilling them on questions related to the theme, we open it up to everyone. If there’s a show of hands, or some physical response, everyone does it. It actually gives the kids the chance to watch the grown ups look silly once in a while…
Great question, Drew. And wonderful insight, all.
I’m in such a huge minority here. I’ve completely changed my position, and I don’t know one pastor who agrees with me on this… but… I think it’s okay for the kids not to be in the service.
Why? Well, ask the parents (I mean ones other than Drew!).
I just spoke to one who said, “I haven’t heard one sermon in twelve years, even though I’m there every week. I’m too busy making sure that my kids behave.”
It sucks having to make your kid sit completely still for an hour. There are ADD kids, autistic kids, etc. And if your child isn’t perfect, if you can’t “control” him/her, then you get dirty looks. Don’t even get me started on those…
And then in our church, there are many, many parents who tell me what a huge and wonderful gift it is to be able to rest for that 45 minutes.
So much in our churches revolves around the kids, but there’s not that much that the parents can do. Why not let them have their way on this one?
And (unlike when I started) I even like children’s sermons now. I intentionally do them for the adults and kids. It’s a time when I can be creative. I can draw, paint, tell stories, cut out fun felt figures. And, every week, I can tell the kids how much we love them.
Re: Tom Robinson’s comment
We now ask the parents of babies to be baptized to choose an older child in the church who will be “the water bearer.” That child pours the water during one of the prayers. It’s very special for that child because she/he now sees the newly baptized as her/his special little friend.
I think it’s possible to “be emergent” (whatever that means) with a children’s sermon. It’s not about “kids saying the darndest things.” It’s about having a relationship with them before they come forward for this part of worship. It’s about taking them seriously and raising honest questions.
It’s not about magic tricks or an entertaining interlude or cuteness. It’s about taking their spiritual lives seriously.
Thanks Jan – we have done that on occasion but not nearly enough. Your idea is a great way for children to be involved. This has also brought up something else, and maybe it’s just my own ‘bone to pick.’ When we have a children’s sermon here, I don’t have the children come up to face the congregation so they can “be on display.” I have them sit on the floor and look at me, or whoever is leading the children’s sermon. Let us have the pressure.
I also don’t think we need to embarass the kids by coaxing them into saying something silly and then repeat it to the congregation. That’s a good way to keep them from coming back. Who wants to be laughed at?
At our church, I invite both the moms and dads to come down with their kids and call it a family sermon. The front of our sanctuary is filled with about 30 kids of all ages up to 5th grade with their parents sitting beside them. After the talk, I ask the families to repeat a prayer with me – it’s wonderful and the rest of the congregation just love to see all the families together.
Try it for a month or so and you’ll see, feel, and know a difference! it’s also a great witness to new families who visit the congregation for the first time!
http://www.erinpresbyterian.org
It seems that part of the problem is how we’re defining church and worship – though maybe I’m just walking completely away from the Reformed understanding of worship…
If we agree that children and parents don’t learn the same way developmentally, and that Church is not merely 1 hour on Sunday mornings, but that worship is an essential to being a part of the body, then why must children be in the service? What are you calling church? Worship or discipleship? Why are we assuming that the only learning/discipleship that happens for the children in any sort of a spiritually formative manner is from 10:15-10:20 when the ordained pastor, youth leader, or person who was nominated to lead the children’s sermon this week is speaking? What happened to parents and children actually debriefing and going further into the conversation of a sermon every week? What happened to Church happening outside the building? And what are we defining as emergent here?
However, the bigger question in my mind is going back to the heart of Reformed worship as I mentioned: is it not glorifying G-d alone? Are we supposed to be learning and teaching one another as our primary worry in worship? Or are we supposed to be exalting G-d as the Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer? If such is the case, why do we not want children to experience that intergenerationally?
It’s when we put the entire focus of worship upon the Christian education that we get lost in these questions, in my humble opinion. But I don’t know. Maybe i’ve lost my my seminary-eyed rocker…
Full disclosure: I’ve not (yet) been able to crack the mold of children’s sermon/Sunday school. I’ve messed with it some.
Here are some things I have done with success.
- The occasional sermon as children’s sermon. 20 minutes, multisensory, puppets and video clips and art and whatnot are all okay. Kids right up close to the preacher.
- Children participate in sacraments, always. Sunday school ends early when there is communion, so kids can participate. Baptisms are the children’s sermon for that day, and the kids come up and sit right at the font.
- Children create things that are essential in the “adult” service, for example, banners, or large dove puppets on Pentecost.
- “Quiet activity” supply basket provided for kids to help them sit more easily in worship with parents, even if the service/sermon fails to engage them. Activities related to the Scripture or sermon are ideal, but that’s harder to do every week.
Here are things I’ve seen done with great success in larger churches:
- Each kid has an adult who is not their parent to be their worship buddy. Kid sits with worship buddy during worship. Kid typically behaves better for someone who isn’t her parent, anyway. Parents enjoy worship with relief.
- More “memorizable” music in worship–no hymnals or screens needed for at least a proportion of the music in the service. This helps kids internalize music well enough to sing it before they’re able to follow printed words fast enough to follow along that way.
- Area in front or front-side corner of the sanctuary reserved for kids to dance during praise songs.
About adults preferring the children’s sermon to the “adult” sermon: I wonder how we can (a) make adult sermons more interesting, and (b) help bring adults along (educationally) to the point where they *can* listen to a 20-minute sermon and be edified by it.
I understand themadlibs’ frustration with too much education in worship. It is, after all, a worship *service* in which we are called upon to serve God.
At the same time, we’ve got to face a reality in many congregations: the majority of congregants are not attending educational events. Most of my sermons are bible studies because most of my parishioners aren’t studying the Bible. It doesn’t matter what age the congregants are; if they’re not learning the biblical stories and the basics of discipleship, they’re not equipped to serve God. I’m reminded of Nehemiah 8, in which Levites dispersed throughout the congregation during worship in order to help the people understand what they were hearing as the Torah was read.
Occasionally, we have children ask four questions as part of the table liturgy as was wondered about above.
the questions we use are: #1. Why do we give thanks and praise before this table (we give thanks and praise for God’s work of creation, liberation and salvation. The Lord be with you… and into the great prayer).
#2 (after the great prayer): Why do we eat bread at this table? (On the night he was betrayed…)
#3: Why do we drink from the cup at this table? (In the same manner, after supper, he took the cup…)
#4: What do we remember at this table? (We remember God’s love for us, Christ’s death and resurrection for us, and the Spirit’s care for us. The gifts of God for the people of God.)
During baptisms of small children, the children also make vows in a similar way that the ‘adult’ congregation does (I’ve run across this in several congregations actually). The vows are:
Do you promise to be a friend to little ___________?
If he/she needs directions, will you show him/her the way?
If he/she falls down, will you help pick him/her up?
Will you play with him/her, and tell him/her the stories of Jesus?
Peace,
Casey
Wow. Great ideas here. Thanks again.
I agree – great thoughts and ideas. As I have recently moved to my second call, and knowing the rule of thumb that my congregation believes in, “Don’t change anything for the first year.” I was really dismayed that children’s Sunday school ran concurrently with worship. My previous call was at a church that, when I came on staff, was in the midst of transitioning from concurrent SS to children 2nd grade and above remaining in worship. It was hard. People left the church over the decision. Some wanted their children ‘entertained’. Others stuck it out but let their children ‘escape’ to ‘help’ downstairs with the little ones. We really had preteens roaming the church.
In my new church the Children’s sermon usually followed the confession – about the third item of worship! I quietly just moved that to between the Scripture readings so that at least the children were hearing Scripture with us. We have just implemented a model of SS we call CHildren’s Worship and Arts. Children 6th grade and younger worship with the entire congregation for approx. the first half of the service. They have a worship space they move to for a more interactive worship experience for them. The format is still worship: singing hymns, hearing another Scripture story, reflection on the scripture including small, age appropriate group reflection, prayer, offering, hymn and benediction.
The first Sunday of the month everyone worships together the entire time. I can’t say which model – staying vs. leaving for age appropriate reflection, is better. Only God knows and time will tell. I’m comfortable with either model.
I remember getting some excellent naps in my moms lap during church as a child. We are dealing with this issue in our church now (including where should the Youth sit? – which could be a blog itslelf – with parents or together – note, many youth do not have parents at church with them) – so along the same lines, what do you do with the kids? I love involving kids (and youth) in worship – this is imperative! For the kids that are just being taught how to be “quiet” for an hour there should be other alternatives. One way I experienced – a long musical worship time with everyone together (babies could be there too) – when the music ended kids left following banners and returned when the adult sermon ended to participate in communion, etc. I guess there just needs to be options for different kids: participation (active), sitting quietly(passive), leaving adult worship for a “fun” kids sermon (same message preseted differently) – but all with as much emphasis on worhsiping together as possible while still using the most effective “methods” possible.