We have received our first two entries into the Official presbymergent Logo Contest. Please continue to submit ideas and pass this information around to any folks you know with design skills. Thanks! And if you want some ideas for the logo – feel free to read through the comments on this past post about the logo – there are some helpful ideas in there.
hey guys,
I submitted the one on the bottom. But I love the one above mine! Any thoughts on using the PC(USA) logo in the PM (presbymergent) logo? or the emergent leaf? is it illegal? Just wondering…
Dannah,
I’ll let those who have more experience with Copyright issues, etc., speak to this issue more, but my first impression is that, yes, we cannot use part of another organization’s logo in the creation of ours. Thanks for taking the time to contribute a logo to the contest though.
Yeah, that’s what another person said. I may try something else then.
It’s not a logo… it’s just for fun. Zachary and Drew’s comments got me thinking…
But all we would really need is permission from the copyright holder if we so choose. A simple agreement can be written right? Unless of course they say no… Since this organization would have at least a loose affiliation with Emergent Village, I would assume, I would think that they would enjoy the integration of the two.
Just thinking…
One other thought… These copyright rules apply to the PCUSA logo as well. We would need approval there as well. All corporate images have fair use rules associated with them and any modification of the image that goes outside those rules makes the user suspect to copyright infringement…
Ok, I’ll weigh in: It’s not copyright laws at all we’re dealing with here, it’s trademark law. Similar, but very different field. Fair use doesn’t apply in trademark law, at least not in the same way that we think of when it comes to copyright law.
The standard litmus test for a trademark dispute is this: Could one trademark be reasonably mistaken for the other? If not, you’re usually ok. Now, that doesn’t stop organizations from sending threatening lawyer letters, of course. I can’t see that from Emergent Village (do they even have laywers?), but possibly from the PCUSA (they definitely do, and judging from their website, they maintain a pretty strict hold on the PCUSA logo trademark).
But all of this is beside the point. Let’s worry about legality when we have a winner — at that point, if we’re passionate about it, it might be worth pursuing permission. But until then, I say we consider all submissions equally, regardless of potential trademark violation, and let people vote for the ones they like best.
Here is another shot… http://thefetteredheart.com/2008/04/12/presbymergent-logo-part-2/#more-1128
Ryan I like the other one you did with the 4 leaves.. but that may be a trademark issue too.
From an artist perspective, I was always taught that if you substantially change six things in a piece, then it’s your own.
But, even so, why wouldn’t PCUSA give us permission to use it? I can’t see why it would be a problem. Has anyone talked to HQ?
The guy who headed the design committee for the seal works at RISD now. From what I heard, he was a minister who couldn’t get transferred into the Presbytery because of an imbalance of elders and pastors there (dumbest thing ever. We should make him our Presbymergent Patron Saint). So he quit going to church. RISD’s a pretty free-spirited place. And as a rogue pastor, he might appreciate some rapscallions messin’ with his design….
I’m guessing the first one’s Stushie. Beautiful job. Ryan and Dannah, they’re great! Ryan, if I had to pick a favorite it would be the first one. But I love how versatile it is. Seeing it go from pastel smudges to neon is really cool.
Fantastic creativity! I can’t wait to see this come together. It makes me want to keep working on the pouring out flip book… if PM can’t use it, I’m sure I can use it for something else. Or it might inspire something better….
I am such a geek.
I like all of the ideas. Ryan, I actually like the Jerusalem cross with the leaves, but the idea of the celtic cross with them would be cool too.
Here’s my real thoughts, though. After being at the emerging church for the existing church conference I left with many mixed feelings. While I have often felt lonely in this journey I felt that the “emergents” outside of a denomination have a completely different (and altogether negative) view of emergents within an established denomination and church context. The last thing I would want is for people to think we’re trying to be “like” them when what in fact what(I believe)we’re trying to do is be different. While I am faithfully Presbyterian, I also strain for something more, something better. While I think, feel, act, and respond as a postmodern I am not exactly like those outside of a denomination. For those reasons I would be more open to a logo that didn’t have either symbols in it.
these are just my thoughts and would love to hear others as well…
David- doesn’t the name presby”mergent” tie us to the emergent church more than the symbols? Do you want to not be “like” the EMC or the Presbyterian Church? I couldn’t really tell by the post. I’m all for new logos, but I think it’s inescapable that there will be comparison to non-denominational emergents.
David,
Great thoughts. I’ve gotten that negative vibe many, many times times. Like there’s the real emergents and I’m a wannabemergent.
I’m all for doing some thing different.
I’m so confused about this whole emergent thing. I just want to talk to open minded people, and I happen to go to a Presbyterian church. How about we call ourselves Postyterians. Or Pomoterians. Or Presbypomos. Teehee.
How about “the real” mergents?
We could make t-shirts that say “I’m bringing Presby back!” No matter the logo we need the t-shirts.
I agree Ryan, the t-shirts are a must! and I like “bringing Presby back”!
In response to Dannah, I don’t want people thinking that what we’re trying to do is just copy what has been done by some other non-denom. emergents. I believe in a faith that is reformed and always reforming, so my ties would stay with the Presby church, but I also think to be able to reach postmods our own denom. needs to change. So I guess you could say that at the heart I don’t want to be either…the radical changers w/o the denom. and the traditional denom. w/o the changes. hope that clarifies the mud a little more. peace out…
Here is a couple of Presby designs…
http://thefetteredheart.com/2008/04/13/bringing-presby-back/#more-1135
Gotcha David. I’m a new Presbyterian. Not super new, I’ve been in a Presby. church for 4 years, but that was pretty much because I liked the pastor Philip and I know the Presbyterians ordain women. But, I’m really liking it more now that I know to venture out online and learn more about it as a whole. I think I’m becoming a “real” Presbyterian. With postmod views.
Ryan, I’ll get Brian on the t-shirts. He’s become a Zazzle fanatic…
My preference is the top one. Whether intended or not – it makes reference to the “emergent rose” that Phyllis Tickle uses as a metaphor for the movement in her upcoming book – The Great Emergence. I also appreciate that it refers to the present PCUSA symbol – but moves on to a living/green thing. The top one has my vote.
These are great. I particularly like Carol’s flipbook, although that’s going to be a bit technical to convert into a t-shirt. I thought about submitting one myself, but all I could come up with was this:
http://weblog.xanga.com/Beloved_Spear/652516043/emergent-logo-competition.html
Oh my gosh. It’s great, David. But what is it? Is that a hamster???
David — that’s hilarious. I almost fell out of my chair! And yes, what IS THAT THING????
Seriously, though, I really appreciated your criteria — we forgot to remind people that the logo needs to be simple enough to easily reproduce in high contrast, low color formats. Excellent point.
Give it another look…I’ve redone it a tich. What was a totally obvious reference in my Keynote animation and in the initial QuickTime export wasn’t quite so obvious in the clip after it had rendered to my blog. Meh.
Looks like “alien” to me.
it looks like the little alien thing that springs out of the body of the people in the movie alien. I love it.
It looks like the weird Quiznos hamsters from a few years back. But strangely, I like it. I did one more, well 2 more. Not quite as imaginative but…
http://dannahsworld.blogspot.com/2008/04/2-more-logo-tries.html
I think this design would be good but I can’t do it graphically…
Dannah's World: ideas for logo
How about something like this
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3084/2432537217_e82364bff8_b.jpg
Both logos didn’t work for me. As a graphic designer, I’ll need to express “Graphic” based on what the company wants to express. No decorative borders involved