So clearly this community of friends is starting to gather more inertia. One thing I’ve been wondering for some time is whether we needed to design a logo for presbymergent. Now that we’re planning on having a booth at General Assembly in June, and our name has started to show up on a few posters for events as a co-sponsoring group, I think it might be helpful for us to get a logo designed for presbymergent.
I made the graphic on the right one night just to have something. However, it’s not really a presbymergent logo – just a few little “badges” put together.
So I’d like to suggest we collaborate on getting a logo design put together. Obviously, we don’t have any funds, unless we wanted to raise some money to hire a professional to design the logo. Otherwise, we can seek out people who may be willing to donate their services, or there may be some of you out there who want to take a stab at designing a logo.
I’m also wondering how people would like to go about the process. Should we find one person to work on the logo? Should we have a variety of people design a logo and then we’ll all vote? I’m open to any ideas. I have a few ideas of people we can seek out, some of which may be willing to do it for free. And I am also willing to work on some ideas.
What does everyone think?
About Adam Walker Cleaveland
Maybe some discussion about what we want the logo to communicate/incorporate?
I think the logo should be catchy, clean, attractive, young-person friendly but not old-person alienating, sexy, and neat. Other than that, I have no thoughts.
a logo is always nice… but its not necessary I don’t think. Personally I like simplicity.
I always wondered what it would look like if you took the PCUSA logo and replaced the two little red flames at the bottom with two little green “emergent” leaves. They’re about the same shape.
But no matter what logo we come up with, it will never be as cool as submergent‘s logo…
Yes to logo.
I don’t have other fabulous ideas except that I like the green leaves.
I have to ask: Why do we want or need a Presbymergent Logo?
What about opening the top of the PCUSA logo…like opening a box?
Hate to be that guy, but don’t we need permission to use the PC(USA) seal? Or do we already have it? I doubt they would approve altering it.
From http://www.pcusa.org/oga/seal.htm:
“The seal of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) is a registered trademark. The seal is comprised of the symbol, the basic components of which are cross, scripture, a descending dove at the upper part of the cross, and flames on either side of the lower part of the cross, and the name of the denomination, Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), encircles the symbol. It was designed by Malcolm Grear and Associates.
Each congregation and governing body may use the seal without receiving prior permission. Any other use requires prior approval by the Office of the General Assembly. Contact Bobbie Montgomery for more information.”
@Adam: Under the Fair Use clause of US Trademark law, we’d be ok with any of the variations described here, because they modify significantly what the PCUSA itself calls “basic components.”
In practice, the litmus test used by the courts is “the likelihood of confusion” between the two trademarks. As long as ours is “recognizeably” different than the original, it can still be based on the original.
Wow, thanks Neal. Never knew that. So, guess we’re back to not knowing, but at least it’s legal.
I made a quick logo here…
http://ryanpappan.blogspot.com/2008/01/in-response-to-need-for-presbymergent.html
@Rodger – thanks for joining in the conversation Rodger. I think I know what you mean, and I don’t want to necessarily contribute to the “branding” of presbymergent…
…but still, I think it’s important for us to have some type of way so that people can “recognize” us, I guess. Now that we have this website, a podcast, and will be making some brochures, possibly a banner for GA, I think it’d be nice to have some type of consistency to our ‘look.’ Does that make sense?
And besides, everyone knows you’re not legit until you have a logo.
Then we got to work on action figures and maybe a t-shirt. After he logo comes merch!
ooo — a clerk of session with a Book of Order/PDA accessory for supporting an emerging Presbyterian community in it’s ‘decently and in order’ efforts — I want one of those….. maybe for GA handouts/booth stuff we should dream more creatively than a banner of words & a tri-fold brochure — anyone interested in putting together some artwork?
I have a bit of time. What do we have in mind?
What about beer cozies, spyglasses, temporary tattoos (or real ones), or Presbymergent brand lattes.
On the action figure front, if we have cos, then we need mod, delegates, and the sign up ladies.
When Bruce is elected to be the mod a figure with mac laptop and beret can be made. Then have hip delegates and some polity wonks watching GA via streaming video. We could have play sets and perhaps a Prius play set can also be included.
I always like designing/collaborating on stuff. I helped design our church’s podcast logo. What if we don’t think of it as a label, but rather as an artistic expression of who we are? Would that make people feel better?
We can’t do it by gathering together, I assume.
We’ve got Ryan’s design (beautiful, I might add), perhaps we can put a couple of others into the mix. I’ll try to think of something….
Adam, is the blog the best forum for this?
We like leaves… are there any other images that come to mind?
Carol will you been in Austin next week as well?
What do we want to proclaim with the logo? The leaf is cool. What from our history signifies the transition we are engaged in? I feel it must reflect our reformed heritage. What about some kind of blossoming flower?
Calvin’s seal was a bleeding heart enclosed in a hand (http://drbrooker.net/?cat=15) Using a heart isn’t exactly creative, but it might be a place to start.
Sorry, though, I’ve got no skills in these areas.
@Ryan, it seems something of what we want to proclaim is a knowledge of our heritage with a strong view towards the Spirit moving in new ways now. As emergent takes pages to even explain on paper, it’s no wonder it’ll take a bit of work to do so visually.
I made a few more logos that I put up on my site (http://ryanpappan.blogspot.com). Let me know if any of them are going in any direction. I am going to get out the old pencils and have at it today.
Adam I agree on the connection with our past with an eye to the future…maybe an eye of some sort? I worked with some heart designs and did not like them. I will see what I can come up with.
Regardless of the logo, I saw we need the action figures and t-shirts in a bad way. The figures must have kung fu grip and a battle feature that varies on the context each figure is facing.
Ryan,
No. I won’t be in Austin. Sadly. My daughter’s got school, and I’ve got an Ash Wednesday service.
I am sorry to hear that Carol. I hope to hang out with Brian.
To all, I put up to more. The top one I like a lot.
Here’s my stab at it or a variation
I wanted to get across the image of the new life emerging from the forest ground.
Oops! The links didn’t work. Here’s one with us submerged http://tribalchurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/presbymergent-2.jpeg. And here’s the other with us growing up: http://tribalchurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/presbymergent.jpeg.
And…the links still don’t work. Durn it. I’ll post them on my site and get back to you with ANOTHER link.
How about this: http://www.chrisharrison.net/projects/bibleviz/index.html
We’d have to get permission, but it’s an awesome image. We could put a black and white PC(USA) symbol in the middle of it, sort of blurry. It’s biblical, it’s connectional, it’s relational, it looks good.
Adam, what image are you suggesting, the arches of color?
Yes, Ryan, the arches representing the connections between the books of the Bible.
I’m a fan of an image with a connectional/network/God vibe.
Not that I have any right to say anything, having never before contributed, but what about just turning the PC(USA) Logo upside down. It could be tarted up using a kenotic theme, something being poured or dumped out of the logo–the message being instead of trying to survive the church is called lose its life in order to save it. Perhaps something could grow from what is poured out. I’m no great artist, but, hey, it’s a thought.
I like that idea.
I just submitted a logo which depicts the denominational framework being sucked into a green vortex of vast cultural change. Either that, or it is emerging on the other side of a verdant wormhole. The PC (USA) logo has been turned at an angle, so that the dove appears to be flying up from the ground. Hope that’s legal and within the blurry parameters of the Book of Order.
Inverting the cross may not expand the conversation in the spirt we hope for.
Take the dove off the top and put the emergentvillage leaf in it’s mouth.
sub-suggester Jennings
You can talk about logos until you are blue in the face. It generally means you have time on your hands. Whatever decision you make, I advise not spending much time on it. Whenever people come on board, in my experience, in local activism, newspapers, websites, etc. they say “Let’s change the logo.”
Onward, I say.
Thanks, Dean. We actually haven’t talked about the logo for over a year, so you don’t need to worry about if we are wasting our time!