Presbymergent for Noobs
I’m an Associate Pastor at mid-size, urbanish church. We’re not the most old-school, white-bread church on the block but don’t count us out yet! I’ve been given the go ahead to put together a proposal to bring to our Worship Commission. The proposal is to form a task force that will explore changes to our existing worship service and explore the possibility of creating a new worship service.
I’m worried that I’m going to mess it up. I’m worried that it will get no farther than the proposal. I’ve been reading the books, following the blogs, listening to the podcasts and checking out the websites. I’ve learned and experienced enough to see the value of emerging worship and how it really is about honoring the faith that Christians have held for centuries. But when I talk about emerging worship I’m afraid that all people will hear is “let’s get a praise band and project a sermon outline in a crappy Powerpoint presentation.”
Does anyone have any experience or insight into briefly and clearly presenting the possibilities of emerging worship without making greying Presbyterians cower beneath their pews? How do I convince them that emerging isn’t a pomo word for mega-church?
Comment by Drew Ludwig on 8 July 2007:
Maybe you should not talk about content at all until you have a community–switch from, “If you build it they will come,” to “let those that come build it.”
Comment by Brian on 8 July 2007:
Here’s my two cents…
As an associate pastor in a similar setting, I would share with you what the team that put together our alternative “emerging worship” service did: Educate educate educate… They had a small but committed team of people who read articles and books. They taught Sunday school classes on post-modern worship styles and talked about the need to reach an audience that wasn’t being reached by the current services. They demonstrated a need for it and did their homework. They didn’t rush into anything - in fact it was three years from when they started meeting that the service began regularly. The service, when they finally proposed it, was received as well as can be expected.
I find often that when people reject an idea immediately it is because the idea is so strange and off-base that they can’t even comprehend it. So start to pave the way - include radical ideas that you would never actually propose just to stretch people’s minds. Then your actual proposal will seem more much sane.
Comment by Shawn Coons on 9 July 2007:
Maybe I wasn’t clear. The proposal isn’t for a new worship service or any changes yet, but simply to for the church’s blessing to official explore new ideas.
Drew: We are starting with “let those that come build it.” That’s why we want this group started, so that those that are here can starting looking for building materials.
Brian: That’s what I hope our team would do as well, I’m just trying to communicate the general idea well enough that we can get our team together.
Comment by Skip Johnston on 9 July 2007:
I would spend some time really exploring why it’s felt that changes need or should be made. Where’s the energy coming from supporting the proposal? Is there a real need for change? What’s not working now? Is this a Spirit inspired desire? Or - and unfortunately I’ve experienced this - is this an attempt to get those suggesting change to commit to things that can then be shot down and the whole issue can be done with? Change can be exciting and/or frightening. The idea is not to sell them on the idea of change but help them recognize that they are already changing.
Comment by Jon on 9 July 2007:
Shawn-
This is my first time on the site, but here’s what I would say. First I agree that its truly is a long term educational project. Second, as you know, it’s really not about being “emergent” or any other hot button term, so if you think that you are going to a negative reaction to a certain term - drop it. You’re translating. You commission really is about paying attention to young adults and the new thing that the Spirit might be doing in your community. Perhaps the purpose is to gather information about the values of those you seek to serve and reach, bringing them into the conversation about worship that engages them. Elements of “emergent” worship will then flow from what you find and the voices that you can bring before the worship department. For instance, if a there is a high value on the community participating and getting out of the pew for worship to connect with others, it will lead to drop certain elements and pick up others. I can only imagine that when terms like emergent get thrown out there from the start that it could cause some folks to dig in their heels, even if they don’t really know what they are resisting. Bless you as you lead this discussion!
Comment by Karen Sloan on 9 July 2007:
Some folks to get connected with are the staff at Solana Beach Presbyterian Church, who will also be at the presbymergent party in Houston on August 16. They are several years into an understanding & embrace of Emergent/PC(USA) worship in their context of many ‘greying Presbyterians.’ Thanks for being honest about what worries this process creates, I’ll be praying for your work!
Comment by Shawn Coons on 10 July 2007:
Drew-
You wrote, “Maybe you should not talk about content at all until you have a community–switch from, “If you build it they will come,” to “let those that come build it.””
Maybe I’m not reading your words right but they’ve left a bad taste in my mouth. I’m not sure on what basis you are saying that we are doing this for the wrong reason? Especially when we aren’t doing anything yet.
For the moment, it’s an idea in my head, and I don’t see it as a gimmick to get young people to our church. Right now it is nothing more than a hope to start this conversation in our church, and to get us talking about our current worship and the possibilities that are open to us.
I was simply asking for people’s experience in briefly introducing people to the idea of emerging worship.
Comment by Mark on 10 July 2007:
Shawn,
I appreciate your asking this question. I’ve tried to engage my congregation with these issues for over a year now, and few people want to enter into that conversation.
I’ve been reading Dan Kimball’s The Emerging Church, and even though I don’t agree with all of his theology, I agree with his assessment of the cultural gap between modernists and postmodernists. Postmodernists seem more comfortable with open-ended conversations than modernists. The modernists filling our pews made up their minds years ago about worship order, content, and style, so they see no need to change things now: if it was truth then, it is truth now, and truth never changes.
I’m currently on study leave and attended my first emergent worship gathering last Sunday evening. (The congregation I serve is over two hundred miles from the closest emergent community that I’m aware of, so I’ve not had a chance until now.) Aside from the fact that the amplified live music was loud folk-bluegrass-rock-something-or-other, the whole experience struck me as being quite similar to a Taizé Prayer service. The music had a repetitive, almost chant-like quality. Prayers were spoken in humble tones with simple, poetic language. Everyone was attentive and meditative–no one seemed bored or restless.
I share all of this because it makes me wonder if Taizé might be a bridge for conversation about diverse worship styles. It might strike the modernists as less of a culture shock to begin with than emerging worship.
I’m probably way off base because I’m new to the whole concept of emergence. What do those of you with emergent experience think?
Comment by Drew Ludwig on 11 July 2007:
Sorry. I think I was reacting to the focus being on changing the worship service. Having read more carefully, and heard the comments, I see that you are doing a whole lot more than lighting candles and hoping that changes things (which is the all too common approach).
Comment by Banu Moore on 11 July 2007:
Dear Shawn,
I am very new at this but I wanted to respond with some of my ideas: Our church has gone through many changes in the past several years. We began with what you are suggesting to do at your church-planning, exploration and discussion. Then we moved to two services, one contemporary, and one liturgical. We changed the times of the services, tried blending both,… No matter what you do some will always reject the idea of change in worship or even adding a new service. Now we sold our building and are worshipping in a rental facility. We have two services: Sanctuary of Hope - a service which incorporates good contemporary music (we are blessed to have a worship pastor who can actually compose great songs)and Ancient-Future Worship which is our traditional worship.
Our experience has taught us that the resistance to change worship is also a resistance to spiriual transformation. So some sacrifices will have to be made along the way. But I have to add this: Our church is small and has a pretty diverse age representation. We have folks who attend one or the other service from all ages; we have folks who only attend one or the other, and then we have those who attend both services every Sunday. We have 90 year old folks who love the Sanctuary of Hope and 30 somethings who will not set foot in it.
I personally think it is possible to have two services, one contemporary and one traditional and still have the freedom to dare a new way of being the church in the world. Well, we are doing it!
So I will pray as you and the task force explore your options. If there is anything we can do, please let us know.
Comment by Banu Moore on 11 July 2007:
This post is in reponse to Mark:
Our Sanctuary of Hope service on Sundays carries within it many elements of the Taize prayer service. It has been working well for us and attracting new worshippers.
This Lent we specifically held Taize prayer services and we had the biggest attendance of all our Lenten programs, 15-20 every week. Majority were older folks who were very open to icons, candles and silence.
As I write these lines, it has occurred to me if we are intentional in creating the sacred space for God to transform hearts, old and young alike who are seeking, will respond to the invitation. I guess for me this is key in being “emerging”.
Comment by Mark on 11 July 2007:
Banu,
Thanks for your feedback on my feedback.
My congregation has folks aged 50-70 who love alternatives to the “the same old same old” in worship, while there are folks aged 40-70 who don’t tolerate wavering from tradition. Meanwhile, the youth are so bored they slip out whenever they can. Blending styles in one service simply doesn’t work.
After many conversations, limited tinkering to the existing service, and slogging through a lot of reading in books and blogs, I’ve pretty much come to the same conclusion: all we can (or should) do is provide different times for other styles of worship, get out of the Spirit’s way, and see what “emerges”.
I’ve done so much reading in the last year, my mind is muddled. I seem to remember someone writting that their congregation has intentional blended fellowship in order to keep folks from their different services from losing touch with each other. I would think blended mission efforts would have the same effect.
Even so, I can’t help but think of the term my Sociology of Religion professor used to describe this reality: ecclesiola in ecclesia, “little churches in the church”. Is this how we handle the cultural transition into the 21st century, to share one mission and one staff under one roof, but to worship apart from each other? I find that idea unsettling. What does it mean to the unity of the Body of Christ?
Comment by Banu Moore on 11 July 2007:
Mark,
I can certainly understand how confusing it is to read all the books and info out there and not be able to make sense of any or all of it. That is how we were several years ago. Take heart, these are the moments of Spirit’s stirrings in your heart and congregation.
I personally do not think we can “blend worship”. We are pretty intentional in keeping both of our services, contemporary and traditional, I will call them. Our worship pastor is talking about starting a third one to reach out to those who are in the arts community.
What we have done in our church is to establsih themes according to the seasons in order to bring unity to our community. The whole church worship, preaching, teaching, fellowship, activities, events, publications, decorations revolve around the same theme which change with the seasons of the church year. Now our theme is Lord, Open Our Eyes so that We May See… Our Sept-Oct theme is From Cracked Cisterns to the Fountain of Living Water… so on and so forth..
Everyone in the church community is familiar with who does what and where within our communal life.
The theme appraoch has truly transformed our unity as a congregation.
We are also very intentional in hospitality. There is always food to share before and after every service to help people connect with one another. And I don’t mean cookies and coffee… From cheese to casseroles to quiches to cakes to breads… And it has become such a habit now that everybody gets excited in bringing something to share with others. Many come for breakfast… Some stay for light lunch…
These are just a few things which are working in our church that I wanted to share to show that it is possible to have unity in the body of Christ with imagination, creativity and lots of prayer.
Comment by Mark on 12 July 2007:
Banu,
Thanks for the great idea of seasonal themes. I have found your contributions — and your way with words — to be refreshing.
Shawn,
Thank you, again, for asking your question and starting this discussion rolling. I don’t know if it was helpful for you, but it was certainly helpful for me.
In Christ,
Mark
Comment by Bob Pearson on 12 July 2007:
At our church the focus was not on starting a worship change or process, but to form a community. We started with a church leader to explore this. Someone other than the/a pastor. A pastor leading this change is to risky for many in the existing congregation. Then start some study classes to read some books. Start with “A New Kind of Christian”. Those that “get” it will become excited, and those that do not will check themselves out. Then get some covenant groups to read the books. Check out your Presbytery to see if anyone else is exploring this. In our Presbytery this was the New Church Development team. Join it or others to explore this new idea. It may give you some credibility with Session and other leaders in the church.
This could consume nine months or more to this point.
Then we hired a summer intern with Emerging church experience. They can become a catalyst to develop relationships with young emerging people and even other young pastors in your community. Start a weekly group to talk about this, to support the intern and to explore what is desired.
At this point you should have a new community starting that will explore what it wants to do. Listen and support it, and be prepared for some radical requests from this community, like doing communion in new ways, using the old rec rom for worship gatherings, doing services in the park, using art throughout the building, etc.
Comment by Nancy on 14 July 2007:
pardon me just nit-picking a bit about semantics… it seems to me that there are several ways to explain “emerging” - style, theology and way of life. To a great extent, ‘emerging’ is not so much a worship format or ingredients as it is a mindset — being Jesus instead of talking about theology, being community 24-7 instead of gathering for a show on Sundays. Being casual and less top-down and teaching -oriented is just the beginning, and perhaps the place to start. I would probably call it a “postmodern” style of worship since it is part of a larger church.
Comment by Shawn on 15 July 2007:
Thanks to everyone for the comments. You all have shared a lot of good information that will be helpful. Most of it was further down the road than we are right now. I was really just hoping for how you’d first explain this to someone.
If you were given five minutes to talk to someone about emerging worship for the first time what would you say?
But maybe that isn’t the right question.
Comment by Shawn on 15 July 2007:
Drew, you wrote, “I see that you are doing a whole lot more than lighting candles and hoping that changes things…”
Which color candles do we light for this to happen?
Comment by Drew Ludwig on 16 July 2007:
Well. Green for change and Purple for hope.
But maybe we should melt to candles together–I guess green and purple make brown, right?
Comment by Drew Ludwig on 16 July 2007:
To answer the earlier question: I’d say it’s what happens when when you question all of the assumptions about what worship is “supposed to be,” and listen especially to the voices (women, minorities, people outside of the church) that have not been heard as well. Its worship that comes from community, rather than hierarchy.
It’s worship the way worship is supposed to be. (hmmm. that’s kind of snarky, but I think it is true.)
Comment by Mark on 20 July 2007:
A short while ago I got off the phone with a member of COM who is arranging their regular visit with our Session. Since my efforts to encourage the church (and the Session) to talk about the congregation’s self-understanding seem to be getting nowhere, I talked with him to see if COM would address the issue at their upcoming visit. He said they’d be able to do that. I need to find out if I’m contributing to communication barriers in the congregation I serve.
Shawn, it doesn’t sound like you’re dealing with communication barriers like I am, but I shared this story in case you are.
As for your latest question, based on what little I know, I’d have to agree with Nancy and Drew. I’d say:
Emergence isn’t a style, and it isn’t just about worship (Nancy’s point). Emergence is a worldview that attempts to get behind/underneath the overlay of authority/hierarchy/traditions/structures in order to find what is essential to the life of the communitty and its relationships with God, others, self.
Therefore, emergent worship is less about style and more about purpose. Emerging worship attempts to be a living answer to the question, “Why do we worship?” not “How do we worship?”
I think the same things can be said for emerging mission, fellowship, nurture (teaching), evangelism, stewardship, care, and (gasp!) polity. Emergence is focused on the purpose and holism of Christian living, not so much upon technique or style.
That is not to say that mechanics aren’t important, because emerging communities seem to be devoted to living faithfully, and that requires a certain amount of mechanics. However, if I might be so trite, it seems to be a matter of form following function.
I know, it’s not as pithy as Rabbi Hillel (teaching the entire Torah while standing on one leg) or Professor Barth (condensing the Gospel into the words of the song “Jesus loves me, this I know”), but that’s what I’ve observed in my exceptionally limited experience of emergence.
Comment by Chris Lee on 11 September 2007:
Shawn,
I just moved to take a youth minister position, but for a few years before I was a worship leader. I was growing in east Tennessee as a known worship leader in my travels, but I was eventually hired to begin a contemporary/emergent/Christians worshipping with rock music kind of worship service.:) After beginning it from the ground up, I began meeting other church staff who had tried similar endeavors. I quickly began to find what works and what doesn’t, and began to see the ways that churches half way do things that make for ministries that aren’t responded to well. I also began consulting other churches on the do’s and dont’s as I found them to be. I could type a forever long message on many things that I found, but it might be easier to just email back and forth. I would be more than happy to share with you what worked for me, what didn’t work for me, and things that I’ve seen in many churches. Just email me at trinityumcyouth@comcast.net–I’d love to hear from you, and I hope that I can help in some way. God bless!
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