Comments on: Why I am Presbymergent http://presbymergent.org/2007/02/13/why-i-am-presbymergent-3/ Loyal Radicals Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:21:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Presbymergent Retrospective, 2007 : presbymergent http://presbymergent.org/2007/02/13/why-i-am-presbymergent-3/comment-page-1/#comment-1242 Presbymergent Retrospective, 2007 : presbymergent Tue, 01 Jan 2008 05:10:33 +0000 http://presbymergent.org/2007/02/13/why-i-am-presbymergent-3/#comment-1242 [...] panel of editors kick off a series of posts on the theme “Why I Am Presbymergent.” Notable guests like LeRon Shults, Nannette Sawyer, and Troy Bronsink, [...] [...] panel of editors kick off a series of posts on the theme “Why I Am Presbymergent.” Notable guests like LeRon Shults, Nannette Sawyer, and Troy Bronsink, [...]

]]> By: Seth Thomas http://presbymergent.org/2007/02/13/why-i-am-presbymergent-3/comment-page-1/#comment-168 Seth Thomas Thu, 15 Feb 2007 05:32:06 +0000 http://presbymergent.org/2007/02/13/why-i-am-presbymergent-3/#comment-168 Brian, thank you for your reflection. As this community develops, it is our stories, our tales from ministry, and our response to the way we are experiencing this emerging faith within our congregations/denomination that will shape us the most. I appreciate hearing other people's response and feelings about how being Presbymergent plays out for them. Glad to be a part of this with you. Brian, thank you for your reflection. As this community develops, it is our stories, our tales from ministry, and our response to the way we are experiencing this emerging faith within our congregations/denomination that will shape us the most. I appreciate hearing other people’s response and feelings about how being Presbymergent plays out for them. Glad to be a part of this with you.

]]> By: Brian Wallace http://presbymergent.org/2007/02/13/why-i-am-presbymergent-3/comment-page-1/#comment-167 Brian Wallace Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:44:04 +0000 http://presbymergent.org/2007/02/13/why-i-am-presbymergent-3/#comment-167 I think belief before belong and vice versa both tend to miss the overall point - which that people tend to join churches at very different points in their journeys. Some people join because they've moved to an area but they come as very active members with a strong faith. Other times you have people who are just beginning, or in many cases, returning to the faith. If we're talking about people who are just beginning in the faith then it's a different matter altogether. My other observation is that few churches have the theological unity that they think or hope they do and nor will they ever have it. I've learned that even people who have attended the same church for years and have loved the pastor end up with wildly different theological beliefs, in part because they're at different points in the faith journeys. While there may be some core beliefs that they can check off when it comes right down to it there's a whole lot more diversity when it comes to what those beliefs mean in practice. I think belief before belong and vice versa both tend to miss the overall point – which that people tend to join churches at very different points in their journeys. Some people join because they’ve moved to an area but they come as very active members with a strong faith. Other times you have people who are just beginning, or in many cases, returning to the faith. If we’re talking about people who are just beginning in the faith then it’s a different matter altogether.

My other observation is that few churches have the theological unity that they think or hope they do and nor will they ever have it. I’ve learned that even people who have attended the same church for years and have loved the pastor end up with wildly different theological beliefs, in part because they’re at different points in the faith journeys. While there may be some core beliefs that they can check off when it comes right down to it there’s a whole lot more diversity when it comes to what those beliefs mean in practice.

]]> By: Pastor Chris http://presbymergent.org/2007/02/13/why-i-am-presbymergent-3/comment-page-1/#comment-164 Pastor Chris Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:38:17 +0000 http://presbymergent.org/2007/02/13/why-i-am-presbymergent-3/#comment-164 Brian: Thanks for telling your story. I lean towards belong before belief model, which is somewhat antithetical to most of the evangelical churches I encounter. However, I also see it changing as churches realize the importance of relationships and allowing pre-Christians time to discover what they believe. Typically, I see this in praxis with the Alpha course. The hard part about alpha that many people encounter is allowing people to ask their questions and explore their discovery of faith. Pastor Chris http://www.evangelismcoach.org Brian:

Thanks for telling your story. I lean towards belong before belief model, which is somewhat antithetical to most of the evangelical churches I encounter. However, I also see it changing as churches realize the importance of relationships and allowing pre-Christians time to discover what they believe. Typically, I see this in praxis with the Alpha course. The hard part about alpha that many people encounter is allowing people to ask their questions and explore their discovery of faith.

Pastor Chris
http://www.evangelismcoach.org

]]> By: Tom Robinson http://presbymergent.org/2007/02/13/why-i-am-presbymergent-3/comment-page-1/#comment-162 Tom Robinson Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:46:10 +0000 http://presbymergent.org/2007/02/13/why-i-am-presbymergent-3/#comment-162 Brian, your thoughts triggered in me a remembrance of an article Jason Byasee wrote about the Emerging Church in "The Christian Century" some time ago. He was talking with Tim Keel, pastor of the Jacob's Well Church in Kansas City. Keel mentioned that a lot of evangelicals take the believe-behave-belong approach to church involvement; if you believe like us and behave like us, you can be one of us. He said that the model he espouses now is more like belong-behave-believe. He mentioned that he tells those who are joining his church to take on certain spiritual disciplines and practice them, and in that our faith will be deepened and strengthened. I think it also applies to us as we look at the church and seek to excite people with the Gospel. If we take belonging as something which is grace and not works, that people belong with us on the faith journey and are in a different place than us (or maybe not), then we can have a conversation about where that journey is taking us. It seems to me that having a conversation with someone about the presence of the Triune God in our lives is a lot more helpful than trying to shove our theologies into somebody. Brian, your thoughts triggered in me a remembrance of an article Jason Byasee wrote about the Emerging Church in “The Christian Century” some time ago. He was talking with Tim Keel, pastor of the Jacob’s Well Church in Kansas City. Keel mentioned that a lot of evangelicals take the believe-behave-belong approach to church involvement; if you believe like us and behave like us, you can be one of us. He said that the model he espouses now is more like belong-behave-believe. He mentioned that he tells those who are joining his church to take on certain spiritual disciplines and practice them, and in that our faith will be deepened and strengthened. I think it also applies to us as we look at the church and seek to excite people with the Gospel. If we take belonging as something which is grace and not works, that people belong with us on the faith journey and are in a different place than us (or maybe not), then we can have a conversation about where that journey is taking us. It seems to me that having a conversation with someone about the presence of the Triune God in our lives is a lot more helpful than trying to shove our theologies into somebody.

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